NEbucketmouth19 Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 (edited) Yes. I agree that there are many opinions out there about what we could call fringe morality. Not every issue can be boiled down to a moral or ethical truth. However, those things that I've stated aren't those types of issues. These are very basic moral truths that have been true for millennia. The hypothetical stealing scenario you've presented describes an extremely rare case. Let's say we agree that in that very specific, and rare scenario, stealing would be ok. Then can we agree that it's not ok in the vast majority of cases? We shouldn't use the hypothetical rare case to redefine the rule as a whole. It doesn't change the basic truth that stealing is wrong. Wouldn't you agree? The reason ethics has no absolute truths is because for them to be absolute they must be provable. To say something IS, is to say it always is. If I say fish can swim, to prove it false all I would need to do is find any fish that cannot swim. If I say stealing is wrong, to prove it false all I need to do is to find one example of it not being wrong, hence the rare scenario I gave. Now that doesn't mean stealing is NOT wrong, because there are countless examples of it being wrong (let's define wrong as harming another person in some way for simplicity). It just means we can't say it absolutely, or as fact. Again, just playing devil's advocate here, I think we can all agree on very basic ethical dilemmas. Had OP gone to the store and taken the reel everyone here (hopefully) would be in agreement. I think where people might be having mixed feelings is that it's a company, not a person. If one of us accidentally sent someone else on the forum a Mother, when the deal was actually for an S-Waver, I think we can all agree it would be right to send the Mother back and try to correct the deal once both parties realized the mistake. But since the financial burden in this case lies on a company, I think it changes people's view a little on the situation. Whether that's right or wrong...some might find that question more clear than others, which is my point in bringing up all the philosophical stuff. Edited June 12, 2017 by NEbucketmouth19 Jace D 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OkeechobeeJC Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 GoblinSlayer, StriperAddict and evilcatfish 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OkeechobeeJC Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BASS_SWINGER Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 ( . Y . ) northeast_trev 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace D Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 (edited) The reason ethics has no absolute truths is because for them to be absolute they must be provable. To say something IS, is to say it always is. If I say fish can swim, to prove it false all I would need to do is find any fish that cannot swim. If I say stealing is wrong, to prove it false all I need to do is to find one example of it not being wrong, hence the rare scenario I gave. Now that doesn't mean stealing is NOT wrong, because there are countless examples of it being wrong (let's define wrong as harming another person in some way for simplicity). It just means we can't say it absolutely, or as fact. Again, just playing devil's advocate here, I think we can all agree on very basic ethical dilemmas. Had OP gone to the store and taken the reel everyone here (hopefully) would be in agreement. I think where people might be having mixed feelings is that it's a company, not a person. If one of us accidentally sent someone else on the forum a Mother, when the deal was actually for an S-Waver, I think we can all agree it would be right to send the Mother back and try to correct the deal once both parties realized the mistake. But since the financial burden in this case lies on a company, I think it changes people's view a little on the situation. Whether that's right or wrong...some might find that question more clear than others, which is my point in bringing up all the philosophical stuff. Right, I see your point, although I think in your example about a fish that can't swim you're conflating a scientific question and a philosophical question. Both science and philosophy can reveal truth, but, they do not do it in the same way. In science we find truth by gathering data and deducing an answer based on the given data. But how do you gather data on ethics? Science can't answer that question for us. For those answers we must look elsewhere. Even Einstein said "You are right in speaking of the moral foundations of science, but you cannot turn around and speak of the scientific foundation of morals." Also, saying that someone stealing to feed a starving person is an example of stealing being ok is not necessarily true either. I was simply trying to point out that the rare event doesn't define the rule. I think we may have different opinions on what the definition of stealing is but I don't think we disagree on the moral rule which says stealing is wrong. Good points though, and I certainly see what you're trying to say. I'm sorry if everyone is annoyed with this thread but I really enjoy these types of conversations so I've kept going probably further than I should. I'll be done now. Great conversation Ryan! You're a sharp dude! Edited June 13, 2017 by Jace D NEbucketmouth19 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BASS_SWINGER Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 Evrey one sounds like they be on to much of that stink weed talking about ethics lol Low&Slow and surfk9 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfk9 Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 My Daddy,RIP, always said "If you Have To Ask, its WRONG"...Bad KARMA...what goes around Comes Around!!! Nick S. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aesoprocks247 Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 Who cares, keep it. zanwhite, RockCardigan, Ceaser and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaterBait Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 If it was mom and pops corner bait shop I'd tell em. Big mega store, I'd keep it. Call me what you will. RockCardigan and aesoprocks247 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aesoprocks247 Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 Wasn't even a store, Daiwa fucked up. It's not even worth the retail price to them anyway. Ceaser 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low&Slow Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 .... This thread still going?????????????????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
365swimbait Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 I was going to suggest locking this thread 3 pages ago, but i wasn't sure if it was the ethical thing to do. Jace D and Tony91723 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 From a big retailer??? Please tell me you kept it timcauliffe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelpMePickABobber Posted June 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 From a big retailer??? Please tell me you kept it I still have it. have not fished it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timcauliffe Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 I still have it. have not fished it Send me it if you don't want it dangling over your head HelpMePickABobber 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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