GARRIGA

No insult taken from you and not saying you were assuming I was new to fishing. Just how Geoff's comment came off. Yes a front hook fish could get the middle or rear tables imbedded but also a fish could come loose and then get snagged by the rear hooks but wouldn't that really be a lost fish that came unbuttoned? Although the rear provides a second chance, to me it defeats the first intent which was to hook an eating fish and keep it attached till landed. Along the lines of the recent thread on not harmin our bass, I just think I should do my best to prevent lost eyes or damaged gills or ripped bellies because of any inadvertent snag. I'm not going to be perfect and if I truly wanted to avoid any problems I'd stop fishing but that not going to happen in my lifetime. Answer me this. If only the front trebles existed or stingers were missing than the scenario of the mid or rear trebles snagging as the bait cramped would be eliminated. Doesn't that make more sense than continuing to drape so many hook points? That's where I'm going with my approach to throwing any bait for any type of fish on any type of water. One hook one bite.

And yet you're posting on a forum versus doing what you preach.

FishDr, Nothing nerdy about underwater video. Plan on doing my fair share to understand how what I pursue react and hopefully fine tune my approach. I agree that any predator isn't 100% perfect on every attempt. If they were their may not be any feed left but not hitting a ball on the square of the bat will often result in no hit. Being out of bounds by an inch means no catch and many a tennis match have been lost by the smallest puff of white smoke. Since its impossible to guage intent than would it be fair to say that aiming for an effective engulfment should be inline with my thought process. Remove the rear trebles and stingers and now it removes a swing and a miss from the equation. If I were tournament fishing than I wouldn't be taking this path but I do have a luxury to miss a fish or two. Seriously, very cool vids.

That's actually a very good point but are they always eating or perhaps investigating that strang object that entered their domain? For example, I spent Friday night (about three hours) tossing a BBZ1 8" just to see how it performed. Didn't expect to catch anything because this lakes has been dead since the community decided to kill off the vegetation for aesthetic reasons. To my surprise, I spotted a few dinks near the edge and tossed bait to see their reaction. Wasnt as dead as ot had been and perhaps a view of good things to come. There was interest but no takers. Except for one loner down the lake that seemed to be hunting in 6"s of water and maybe a rod and a half length from me. I pitch the bait a few feet away to see I it would scare. Me experimenting as I usually do and to my further surprise put it stayed. Decided to crank the top water withing eye sight and as it came over its back caught the little guys attention and it quickly came up and engulfed the front treble. It was probably a pound and a half and obviously chewed more than it can handle. I didn't bother setting the hook because that's not what I was after or worth getting slime on my hands. A few seconds later it was off. By no means did I consider that catching. It obviously was investigating with the only thing it had versus trying to swallow what wouldn't fit in its mouth. Hopefully that distinction makes sense to what I'm seeking.

Honestly, I didn't ask for advise on fishing. Just wondering how others perceive how they catch. Geoff assumed instead of answering the question or simply ignoring it if he so chose to. I'm not new to fishing. Perhaps I come across that way or it's easy to assume that those with less than a certain number of posts are truly newbies. As for your point on the bigger the bait and hooks outside. Are we talking about dinks or 8 plus pounders? I have a hard time believing a fish with such a big mouth is going to miss the bait if it really wanted to eat. Perhaps a 16" bait but not one 8-10". Perhaps I should have explained from the start I'm specifically speaking of what many seems to consider a Swimbait fish. I don't throw bricks for anything smaller. I have other less demanding lures to accomplish that and those get eaten hole. If we removed the rear set of trebles from hard baits or stingers from soft baits than would we still be catching eating fish over 8 pounds? I think so. Wouldn't hurt if we lost the barbs as well. But that just me and no one else has to follow. Doing it one's way isn't necessarily the wrong way. Just different.

I'll be sure to get more sun to leather up what I have. But did your fish eat or did you just get lucky? Are bedding bass really a challenge? Haven't had a one ignore a Senko regardless how proper or poorly it was presented. Assuming that bass hasn't been recently caught. How exactly did you deduce that bass used its mouth to orally molest a moving bait if it's been snagged outside the mouth or gills? What if your lure just happened to swim over a fish? Is that a catch or a snag? I'm pretty sure you know where I stand on that one.

We're on the same page.

Considering that bass are engulfing predators that must swallow hole or loose what they grabbed. Would you consider a bass grabbing the rear set of trebles one that ate or one that perhaps attacked for territorial reasons or something else other than eating? This is the point I'm making about slapping and snagging versus eating and catching. I may be in the minority but I want my bass to eat. Reason I rarely ever bed fish and only caught one in 2012. I couldn't resist a four pounder at my feet. Will say this much. That girl ate and wasn't trying to pick up an annoying intruder in its nest. Senko fish too and quick sweep prevented any chance of gut hooking and ruining her day.

Could just be me, but perhaps you are assuming way too much and not comprehending what you read. Whether you choose to over-analyze or not is your choice, just as it is for me. However, telling another to or not to isn't. For either of us. Sharp people seem to know that. One also has the freedom to participate or ignore any thread or post. Usually the best action versus demanding another must do as they think. I was hoping this could be a mature discussion on how each approaches what they do as it pertains to swimbaiting but it appears it will just turn into another online romper room mob mentality session so perhaps it's best it ends now. Last thing I need to read is some adolescent catch all phrase "Haters will hate". You'd think our education dollars can provide better dialogue than that.

Seems like most want the catch regardless how it comes. Some prefer to know its because they made it happen and others are somewhere inbetween. Without making this a battle among different approaches perhaps we can have a healthy discussion on how we approach this amazing sport which for some could be a source of income and/or a life obsession. Here's my take on Swimbait fishing and how I specifically approach it and it will answer this question I pose. If I just wanted to catch the biggest then a bucket of shiners (really big bucket) and the biggest shiners would do. If I wanted to catch a lot of bass than the smallest shiners would be adequate. I don't do that and doubt I will unless others with me on that day required it. Might still be the only one chucking something inanimate. I was drawn to swimbaits because it attempted to replicate what was real without the real and therefore required the additional variable being me. Me being what added the final real factor that made another predator commit to eat. To eat what wasn't real and could potentially end it's life. Something live shiners removed from the equation and in my estimation made it more like fishing in a barrel versus the added difficulty of convincing something aged by experience from making a mistake it could not afford to make. That's it. How exactly can I then justify snagging a fish that happened to swipe at something in their area and wasn't fully fooled into thinking they were about to eat? How can I justify not using shiners if all I'm doing is trying to get? Is it really just about catching, however it happens, or is it about catching because something wise and old, thought for a moment, I provided the perfect scenario for filling an empty cranky stomach? These are my reasons and my struggles and not what others need to think or do. I'm in no way saying its the only way but perhaps to some Swimbait fishing is about more than how one defines a Swimbait and more about how one approaches fishing. Hopefully this is accepted as intended and not assumed to criticized what others do. We all stroke differently and what makes us unique and fascinating in our own ways. Peace and happy catching in 2013, however, that may be.

Larry Dahlberg has commented that he refuses to use multiple treble lures because of the damage they've done to Musky in the past. Single J hook lures catch fish. Not very good at snagging and could cost one prize money so I understand why some struggle with that approach. Would it hurt if all non tournament days and just for fun days were done with the intent to capture those who really wanted to eat versus ensuring everything came to the net? Not too long ago it was common practice to hang everything caught from hooks so the bragging could be seen and charter captains could entice new clients. Then there was the movement to capture, photograph and release and hopefully in the not too distant future the norm is catching versus snagging and being content that if one gets away there's another waiting to be baited versus less for our kids. It's amazing how many lures sold with trebles are effective with single J hooks or if not practical with the J hook than perhaps with the one set of trebles. Barbless in many situations work so long as a tight line is maintained and hook removal becomes a breeze where pliers need not ever go again. Sorry for the soap box but it amazes me how we often dismiss the obvious because often money controls how we need to proceed. Not saying others have to follow but imagine if they did.

I was thinking of acetone but afraid it would remove more than just paint. I'll give it a try.

I've considered painting my lures a solid color which works from my area. For example, most of my top,waters are black. Would be nice to get whatever I need regardless of color and redo them as needed. Those matte black special runs from 3:16 were sweet. Any suggestions on what I can use to strip the paint for those that have their manufacturers coat on? I'm guessing there's a Kryoln spray paint I could use to create the matte finish and can probably dispense with the clear coat. Sorry if I hijacked this thread but thought its comparable enough it didn't need another thread.

I've tried these type of thread on the other forum and gotten my butt kicked because it seems many cherish the catch versus the hunt. Might as well get my butt kicked here as well. I could careless how many fish I miss. I want to catch what I fool and not snag it. All my hard baits are getting their rear hooks removed and what remains will be barbless. For some a single hook will replace the front treble. If I rig a Hudd BB style then it will be with two of the hooks clipped on the treble so they act as a stand and the one remaining will be barbless. If I can find a way to incorporate circle hooks I will. Regardless how many claim it will never work. To me, and no one has to agree with this, I cherish the fact I convinced one of God's creatures to make a mistake it could not afford to make and bite my artificial offering. If I catch that magnificent creature than that's gravy. The bite to me is 90% mission success. Doesn't do well with the Saturday morning show me fish jumping mentality. I don't tournament fish, I don't go photo crazy to show off what I did and I'm not worried about what others think of me. I chase big anything and will forfiet 100 of something to get one that most rately see. I fish because I choose and I choose to because it brings great joy and relaxation from the daily grind we call life. Been this way as long as I can remember. Peace and Happy Holidays to all.

I purchased 2 and lost one on the fourth cast to a rock. As Don mentioned, these are intended for places the non weedless can't go. I was just trying to see how it fished and waiting to spring when the weeds come back up. Hopefully there's another run and I can get more. Really nice bait and I think the suppleness will result in fish holding them longer specially if lathered with one's favorite juice. Ken has a winner and something I've anxiously awaited since I first saw the weedless 6". Although I agree the hidden hook adds to its stealthiness I also understand its limitations and repeated cast will do this bad boy in. Same with most plastics that often tear up before you've ever gotten even a sniff. It is what it is and finding how to best fish it within its limitations and design intention is what I plan to do. I was going to get rid of my regular 8a bit now realize that would have been foolish thing to do. As for Hudd 8s in general, I have had quite a few follows but no bites. All fish were 4#s plus but fishing from shore has its limitations due to running out of Realestate and having no option but to stop the bait at ones feet as the bass stairs you down realizing somethings must be wrong. Thought about carrying a Senko rig and following up on thise now excited and enticed followers. If you cant hook them then perhaps the lure can act as teaser and lure them in. Regardless, I keep chucking it because I know I will get one and it will be big.

One could argue that if its not geared for tournament size fish than its probably a swimbait mentality. Besides, if you're reading and posting on this forum than you most likely feel you're throwing swimbaits. What exactly that is depends on who's throwing and to what body of water. In other words. Does it really matter?

I have a few Dobyns Swimbait rods and would recommend this over the Okuma. Haven't fished the 807 but many praise its ability to throw Hudd 8s and bigger. More than the $80-$100 price range but well worth the increment based on what many have said about both lines. With the introduction of the 867 and 908, there may be many of these 807 rods available in the classifieds. Youve never even caught a swimbait fish.... Okumas are GREAT rods for the price, sure they arent a dobyns, or LDC, But they get the job done. I've never caught a swimbait fish? Are you sure about that? You might be taking my recommendation way too personal. Remember, it's just my recommendation based on how I fish and the gear I prefer to fish. Lots of posts on broken Okumas and yet not a one I've ever read about Dobyns. Therefore, my recommendation is based on getting the most bang for the buck over the entire swimbait experience and not just the initial purchase. Pay more now and enjoy more later. The OP may be better served spending a little more now versus having one more item to clutter the classifieds in a few years or less. Then again, what do I know, I've obviously never caught a swimbait fish. BTW, what those things look like. Lol

That actually sounds more like the 806. Garriga, the LDC prod Heavy has a faster action that shuts down quicker than the Dobyns 806. I like the LDC for jig hooks whereas I prefer the 806 for trebles. That's what I'm saving my 806 for although the 867 may work as good treble rod because of its length. Seems like I'm on the right track with the 795. Now I just have to fish it and see.

I'll checkout the minnow. Thx.

I've only fished a few times and couldn't get it to penetrate the mats behind my house so I dismissed it as a punch bait but goin to try with Hydrilla and similar vegetation. Seemed like the body is so big I just sat on top vs how a 1.5-2 oz tungsten setup just drops in. Is it just a matter of wiggling it to drop or are certain mats unpenetrable because of the overall bulk of the lure? Would love to punch this thing and just have one lure to handle much if the vegetation I will encounter. Seems like carrying all my gear is more work than what I actually catch. Lol

That actually sounds more like the 806.

I've seen Mickey's video on bending the hook and will try that but not sure how much skin I'll be grabbing. Doesn't have to be ultra Weedless unless I try Punchin with it and why I was thinking its like an oversized worm and requires a stiff extra fast action blank. I'll try the 795 and see how it goes. Might also try copolymer line which is something I was considering for general Punchin because its got less stretch than mono but more stretch than braid and might off a nice blend of hook setting power without ripping the hook out later. Does anyone know what the action is on the LDC mentioned above? Not much j to on the site other than lure weight range. Trying to bench mark what is working so I can best fit what I have. The 806 is a good treble rod and I don't see it having the right tip action to set the hook should I need to bury it in the bait deeper than a typical skin Tex-Pose.

My plan is to use the 795ML with 80# braid and a Z2020SHL to throw 8" Mission Fish in Lake Okeechobee or other weed infested areas. My reason behind this combo is because I've read the Mission Fish requires a stout rod to penetrate all the plastic and best done on a slack line with braid. The 795 has a stouter blank than the 806 ML (my other option) and should be better at driving the hook home. Purpose for 80# is because braid doesn't have the best shock quality and if I have to cross her eyes than I prefer the extra insurance of a thicker line. The Z is picked because its gots the required guts on such a small frame and its more comfortable than any equivelant round reel. The high speed pick up will help picking up the slack after the hook up is accomplish should the fish swim towards me and I don't need cranking power of a low torque reel. The rods I have available are the 867, 806, Cumara 711XF and Cumara 77H that's rated for Punchin with 3oz baits and seems rather stiff but not as stiff as the 795. I understand many will want to recommend something else but I'm trying to work with what I have unless nothing I have has a chance. The main goal is to be able to hook the fish with this lure and I'll be using the appropriate Owner Beast Hook which I've had much success with in the past and what Mickey is recommending with his V2. Thanks in advance.

One of the better reviews I've read and a template for others. Now you've cost me some money cause I need to finally get me a 9". Darn it.

Got a shipping notification on my black Wake Jrs. The man said he was shipping them out Wednesday and that's exactly what he did. I'm finally getting my first 3:16 hard baits. This could be bad.