Magic Man CP

Hate the association of "collection", lol,, but here's what I collected in past week, thanks to a few awesome members! Can't wait to get some serious use out of these

Ditch the screw eyes all together. Make your own straight wire pins that attach to the hook eye, secure with tiny amount of glue, and your life will now be easier. Also,, I highly recommend a little bit of weight on the hook shank, and keep it as close to the nose as possible, this will make that bait and others like it run nice and straight.

Kayl brought up a good point, your rat. Sure they were popping up on ebay and a few here as well, for HUGE inflated prices. But when you dig into it a lil deeper, you find that there were certain retailers selling big batches to a couple people who were turning and burning. That's tough to control from your standpoint. But at least I didn't hear about you yourself selling big quantities to known flippers, to reap the rewards on your product, I think that's one of the biggest differences.

I can honestly say you're doing a damn fine job of doing what you can Matt. You offer baits at a very affordable price point. Baits that CLEARLY look and perform substantially better than similarly priced baits. There definitely does not seem to be a flipper like association with yours, maybe due to you busting @ss to meet the demands? Maybe certain ethical business practices, such as not letting certain obvious guys get a hold big quantities before the general public, preventing them from selling for huge amounts over your price point..? Whatever you're doing is working pretty well in my opinion. There are definitely companies who could learn from you I think, certain companies that put out baits that continuously get absorbed by the flippers.

Nowhere did I dispute any of that. I may not have gone into the cost portion as detailed as you just did, thank you, and since you did I agree because I have or had ALLL those those costs and then a lot more along the way. Regardless of a bait's retail, a manufacturer is going to have all the accrued costs associated with the business, no way around that. Again, for some reason it seems my comments were directed towards yourself or another similar maker, I was not. There are certain bait companies that I believe could play a part in hugely reducing a flipper's ability to have inflated profit margins, that they've got to be aware of, but don't seem to do anything to change it. This thread is about flipping. Stick to the topic Caezar. I never suggested you had a bait I thought was being flipped because of its popularity, maybe you do, I don't know, if so it's not what I'm referring to. And if you are kicking out baits to that level, 500/month then yea you certainly are doing some huge things. Maybe I need to quit sleeping at the wheel and try one out, especially while they're readily available. I'd just hope you don't follow suit and enable the flippers if/when the time comes your bait blows up to that level. We found out early on that we had a retailer flipping to other retailers, we shut down their account instantly. That's just how I do business, not saying it's right/wrong or whatever, just something I feel strongly about.

Hmm, good point, without the other half no way to tell. I'd say if Hinkle took care of you it's a double score for you bro! You caught fish on it before it broke,, things happen with baits/gear, sometimes just hard to avoid. I just dropped off my motorguide for repair,, this guy, he went up in me sideways cause there were a couple scratches on the motor housing, saying garble like "you guys don't take care of your stuff, you treat it like crap, then whine and complain when it can't keep up with all the abuse".... I didn't remember telling him a damn thing other than it just simply stopped working, certainly no whining, and yea I've bumped logs, rocks, and whatever else was in the path of that thing, but still in pretty great condition, only 5 months old. If only more people had the customer service you experienced... haha Glad to hear you're back on the water with your bait man!

Bladed jig, not to be confused with "chatterbait"

Well that's where you and I will disagree! "Deltaman" on here is living proof baits can be made, HAND MADE for far less money, baits that are very much/just as effective than others sold for double or triple the amount. So if you want to break it down, about $6 for resin, $1.50 for plastics, $5.00 for taxidermy grade glass eyes, and about a buck-fifty in paint,, plus added in different costs such as utility and cleaning products. Let's just say $20.00. Well at some point we as makers have to realize our years of experience in testing is just all part of the get down,, if we truly make baits cause we love it, that's just the cost of the game. I guess I could factor in my dive time, getting scuba certified so I could learn how my bait performed underwater, truly the only way to really know. All the gas, gear and everything else involved in producing a bait. And granted, my baits never had a huge swimbait price tag, but still the same level of craftsmanship and attn to detail. And again,, I'm not trying to diminish anyone's work. My original point was aimed moreally towards the makers who could do a lil more to limit the flipper influence and keep baits affordable, at a price everyone can handle.

You missed my point Caezer. I support the small guys, I was one, got too big, and now am one again. Not making swimbaits, at least not yet, but even though my baits don't retail for much over $10, doesn't discount their catching power, and me being able to hike up the price, or allow flippers to do so. And in no way was anything directed towards you, in fact up til now I don't think you've ever made a bait that's had such a ridiculous effect on people, one that you retailed for "x" amount, and now is grabbing 50%, 100%, 300% increases. Or maybe you have, I don't know I don't have any of your stuff or personally know anyone who fishes your stuff,, but I do respect the process in which you make them though. My problem is not with any one company or maker,, but more so an attitude or practice that's got out of hand or left unchecked. I absolutely don't want baits mass produced in a generic fasion, but I will absolutely fish them if that's all I can get my hands on to accomplish my needs. Baits are only tools to me. Period. I'll use the best tools when I can afford to, when I need something else I find a comparable one, or make it myself. I get the job done either way. End of story. But others don't always have that luxury, like you and I, maybe can't afford all the hot baits out there or means to produce them for themselves. So are they jus @ss out?? I'm not saying Andrew or anyone else should just give them away or take a beating on them. I'm just suggesting other ways to get them to the right people for the right price, that's all, plain and simple. If you or anyone else disagrees with that, great, that's your opinion and that's fine. All I was saying is, if they don't change things up, there is an imminent possibility of a similar product being made elsewhere, and I'd like to see that avoided. I just run my business with a different type mentality. I make the best possible versions of certain baits, using the highest quality components, best paint/finish schemes, a product that's overall superior in each aspect,, but try to offer at same retail price point as my competitors. I still make plenty of money, but the larger reward, offering a bait to the fisherman that's the best they can get, pro-quality gear made affordable. I know what goes into swimbaits as well,, may not have produced any under my own name, yet,, but have worked first hand with companies, and I'll tell you right now, any bait that's over $100 retail is almost always way overpriced. Period. It's a fact, not my fact, but nevertheless a fact. Now you or anyone else can set your price point wherever you like, only you know what your time's worth. I just do things differently that's all. Hope this added some clarity to my position. You or anyone else is absolutely welcome to pm me to talk about this any further, please hit me up, I'm about as open as it gets. Thanks!

Hmmm,, I agree with a lot of what M.Gilbert wrote there, but I guess it would carry more weight if the bait he's advertising his catch with didn't just so happen to be the #1 choice cut of Unicorn meat that flippers are "capitalizing" on most... Personally, I take great offense to referring to what I associate flipping to be, a form of capitalism. I support capitalism a 100%. But flipping, 0%. As a bait company owner, for twenty years now this spring, I actually despise flipping. It's certainly nothing new, has been going on long before swimbaits, and with different types of baits all together. I released a bait in 04' that took off like a wild fire. And yes, there were flippers, guys buying up huge lots of baits, only to resell them at much higher profits. I felt like all that was doing, was screwing over the other fishermen, forcing them to buy whatever bait they can get their hands on. And often times, sending them to another manufacturer, a much cheaper often overseas manufacturer. And while all that traffic was being redirected through the doors of Walmart, that company with their far more inferior product ended up growing like a GIANT. And when that giant decided to eliminate all the other competition, even one of the originators, they whipped out their limitless credit card, bought a patent they absolutely did not deserve, and put a stop to all other companies producing that type of bait. A true capitalist in my book, will go out, get a retailer license, purchase the baits from the manufacturer and retail them for an AGREED amount. That is fair legal capitalism. Period. Not putting a few guys on a list, letting certain ones buy up big amounts, knowing darn well they're not actually using these things for themselves. These aren't 4" drop shot worms we're talking about, they're baits that theoretically should last us years of hard use. But I put a big part of the weight on the shoulders of the bait makers who allow this to happen. So what if there's a giant out there with their own replica, who's gonna release it way cheaper, and far more readily available? Could it end the top few companies us fishermen are struggling to buy products from now, but are getting screwed over by the flippers? In this case, I'd say no, fortunately I don't see a patent being the end all. But hypothetically, what is a big overseas company did indeed decide to mass produce a lower quality hinkle, hph, 3:16 type of glide shad and they patented the hinge system? Again, very unlikely, but who would really be the ones screwed over? Us the fishermen for sure, cause now we can't even get those premium baits, and even more so the bait maker, and probably even the flipper without that profit coming in anymore, not that I'll ever feel sorry for them. And I agree with Gilbert that it's not solely the bait that puts the fish in the pics. For that matter though, it's absolutely not any one thing either though, not the boat, rods, reels, gear,, but you put all that together with someone who's formulated a plan with experience being him, and it can absolutely all come together. And as bass fishermen specifically, we see or hear someone catch a toad off of a certain bait we convince ourselves our success can be similar to that guy's too! Even if he does live twelve states away with conditions, structure, and forage we absolutely don't have. And that's why bass fishing is so favored compared to other species, the endless array of tactics, gear, and tackle. I just feel bad for the guys out there who would like to fish certain baits but can't, because the prices have been driven so high, some guys just cannot afford $100, $200, $500, or even higher. But if they come out with me for the day they can use whatever I have, cause that's where the passion for the sport is greatest for me, putting guys on memorable fish, it's truly priceless. Yea,, I know mods hate the long stories, but sometimes they need to be shared. Hopefully this brought a perspective to the flipper debate that people here hadn't thought of yet.

Well not quite the monster I had planned on displaying your bait next to... But better than nothing at all, lol! It was a pretty tough day, less than stellar conditions. Any time on Clear Lake where you can get get a sunburn and caught in a hail storm all in the same day, along with wind gusts upto 40+ mph,, you can just about bet on poor cooperation from the fish. Which is why a couple fellow guides and a tackle shop owner I know were a lil surprised I was even there in the first place. But Big Slant and I were on a mission to just get out for a lil water time, and keep the expectations low. With much anticipation, I tied on Slant's Undertaker, and as soon as it hit the water and I was able to see it swim, I knew it was a special bait! No offense to Craig, but I was actually a lil surprised and how damn well the bait was balanced and so precisely weighted, it had a very fluid like glide, and an awesome near suspension like stance at a brief pause. I'm highly critical of the baits I choose to spend my precious time using, I can already predict this is going to be a confidence bait I can rely on. Within the first few casts, a cunky lil male crushed the Undertaker, he was a 2lb fish with an 8lber attitude! Unfortunately we didn't get a lot of time to use the bait due to the intense wind,, but rest assured, it'll be getting some much deserved trigger time pretty soon, keep your eye out for this bait, it's a total sleeper waiting to do it's thing. Craig got it in the right hands, all I have to do now is introduce it to some fat green girls I know, and get Slant his new pb on it! Thanks Craig!

If, or more like when, the bait makers can keep up with demand, we won't be having this conversation anymore. It's really only with a certain few baits that seem to have this association. It's only a matter of short time before some overseas company figures out that replicating a gizzard shad is the hot ticket rt now, and maybe big bulky trout baits for select regions. I've personally worked on unique resins deign engineers, resins that will blow away the industry as we know it. Don't get me wrong, I'm very patriotic, I absolutely don't want to see yet another predominantly American created bait go to another country, but from following past trends we're heading there. But in a country where people who are working sub-entry level, experience creating jobs, are beginning to demand a minimum wage increase to $15+,, should it even be a surprise to see where this is heading...

Kinda what I was thinking, pics show both sides of the hinge, looks all in tact.

So what was the issue, pin backed out, or hinge broke?

Ummm,, actually not entirely true. We talkedabout it on the main forum, 50ish replies, dozens of "likes". The thread was promptly locked. Then unlocked... Then locked again... haha! Apparently we can kinda discuss it here on main forum, but only to a certain extent, not to exceed a character limit of verbage. Whatever. It's an old topic, I get it.

Hey everyone, , had a recent transaction with Judson, jcw,, and wanted to let everyone know he's a stand up guy, I'd absolutely recommend doing business with him! He pm'd me after seeing a post I had made made a reply to, offering me an awesome deal on some very hard to find baits. It's guys like this that keep real fishermen fishing, he totally understand the meaning of helping someone out! Thanks again Judson!

Whaaaaat...? A bait that not only Brian doesn't have "two doz of", but also a stumper?!? Say it isn't so

Nice bronzers Stuart!

Thanks Brian! I should've just went rt to the source and asked you bro! Haha, you prob have a couple dozen!

Let's make it happen bro,, I'm definitely down if we can get together and head down!