Hinkle vs. ABT

[High Power Swimbaits]

 

I agree with you. I appreciate hand made baits from one-man shows such as yourself. In fact, your wake bait is my favorite wake I own. But not replying to emails is not cool in any type of business. Being on a waiting list I understand too, even two years. What is frustrating is seeing people "in the know" getting baits before those who have been waiting a long time.

 

And please, someone tell me the last time any bait maker had a new innovation with a swimbait?

 

I am sitting on some more innovative stuff. Better baits for sure. I may produce it and may never produce any of it. The reason is If you make something innovative or just different as a one man show then larger companies or even people you know are going to copy/steal it. Consumers will buy it using the excuse they "need" it and can't get it to justify it. Half the reason there is no innovation is that the consumer lacks any moral compass to guide his decisions and shoots him or herself in the foot. He or she knows it's wrong but finds a way to justify it by blaming the person or company who isn't meeting his needs aka wanting something that belongs to someone else. This is the USA not the USSR. Nobody or any private company owes you anything unless you have paid them for it. It's a messed up way of entitlement thinking I am glad that my parents taught me differently. I was taught by my parents that the design and the bait until he takes my money belongs to Andrew Hinkle and it's his choice if he wants to sell it to me or even talk to me about what is his. It's his to do with as he wants.

The rest of the blame lies on all the companies making baits that aren't that much different than what is popular at the time or trying to imitate them with no innovation at all just to meet a demand and get a part of the action. I was making glides before I made any other swimbait for myself and very few friends. I saw a bait from Japan around 10 years ago that had to be a Gancraft or FLT bait that gave me the idea but I didn't look at the bait x ray it, cut it open and study it to make mine. It went home to japan with the guy who was fishing it. I went home and started experimenting through trail and error and fishing with what I made and made a bunch of changes over time. It's why my bait catches fish for one but has a much different swim to it. I sat on the Gliding gizzard design for a long time as well. I would have sold them around 2006 -2007 without the realistic look if it wasn't for the fear that they would be copied and made some thief money. The glide craze forced my hand but it wasn't a copy of anything made at the time.

[oh ok]

I heard all the Gizzard Shad swimming around the country were getting together and going to tell Randall to quit copying their design!

[adconx]

Damn, here we go!

[jcolo4sho]

 

I agree with you. I appreciate hand made baits from one-man shows such as yourself. In fact, your wake bait is my favorite wake I own. But not replying to emails is not cool in any type of business. Being on a waiting list I understand too, even two years. What is frustrating is seeing people "in the know" getting baits before those who have been waiting a long time.

 

And please, someone tell me the last time any bait maker had a new innovation with a swimbait?

 

I am sitting on some more innovative stuff. Better baits for sure. I may produce it and may never produce any of it. The reason is If you make something innovative or just different as a one man show then larger companies or even people you know are going to copy/steal it. Consumers will buy it using the excuse they "need" it and can't get it to justify it. Half the reason there is no innovation is that the consumer lacks any moral compass to guide his decisions and shoots him or herself in the foot. He or she knows it's wrong but finds a way to justify it by blaming the person or company who isn't meeting his needs aka wanting something that belongs to someone else. This is the USA not the USSR. Nobody or any private company owes you anything unless you have paid them for it. It's a messed up way of entitlement thinking I am glad that my parents taught me differently. I was taught by my parents that the design and the bait until he takes my money belongs to Andrew Hinkle and it's his choice if he wants to sell it to me or even talk to me about what is his. It's his to do with as he wants.

The rest of the blame lies on all the companies making baits that aren't that much different than what is popular at the time or trying to imitate them with no innovation at all just to meet a demand and get a part of the action. I was making glides before I made any other swimbait for myself and very few friends. I saw a bait from Japan around 10 years ago that had to be a Gancraft or FLT bait that gave me the idea but I didn't look at the bait x ray it, cut it open and study it to make mine. It went home to japan with the guy who was fishing it. I went home and started experimenting through trail and error and fishing with what I made and made a bunch of changes over time. It's why my bait catches fish for one but has a much different swim to it. I sat on the Gliding gizzard design for a long time as well. I would have sold them around 2006 -2007 without the realistic look if it wasn't for the fear that they would be copied and made some thief money. The glide craze forced my hand but it wasn't a copy of anything made at the time.

+ 1 Randall, now where are my glides, hahaha. I've been waiting for the mailman damn near everyday now. You make a killer bait dude, Now watch out for those ABT dummies. Next thing you know, ABT gizz glide, now that would be fu*ked up. You have been very responsive and I appreciate that. Thanks man.

[godzilla]

When your dealing with a one man show I cant understand how guys get all turnt up over a wait list being long. Its just how it goes. How hard can a guy work. Full time job, Life, Fishing and making baits. If the demand is great you either have to sell out and have them massed produced, which wont be like the original or quite the day job to make baits and if you have a good day job and like money, isnt really an option. I feel like we are all pretty lucky to even get a shot at a bait like a hinkle. There are so many amazing baits guys craft up that smoke fish that we will never even have a chace to see unless someone blows it up. Most bait makers IMO start selling baits because peopl request it. I never pushed a bait of mine, but after a while people started asking for them. Then when you do offer what you can make to the public someones not gonna be happy because they cant get one or they are over priced or you wont paint the color they want. Its a cant win, catch 22 for guys who are in it to make a quality bait all by hand. I understand frustration but it is what it is.

ABT is trying to swoop in and corner a small market with a bootleg. And then claim they have the best glide on the market.... uhhhh I think the 250 has proven its definitely the best producing glide on or off the market, not to mention teeners caught on hinkles and mothers. Just insane how shameless one guy can be

 

u are right sir!

[b8thrwr]

I don't know how I don't know how to post pics on here but just had a friend check out a pic of my hinkle and a pic that abt "used to have up on thier site) if someone can post it in here that would be great.. It really is worth 1000 words.. It can be found on swimbait universe thread on facebook

Tia

[flaswimbaiter]

Here you go Danny

[aesoprocks247]

The smoking gun right there ^

[evans_usmc69]

Here you go Danny

 

That's not an exact copy at all.........

[jcolo4sho]

I have swim footage of the ABT, and I hate to say it, but it looks pretty damn good. However, it does not have a wider glide than a true hinkle as they are claiming. But still, I would never buy one just due to the integrity aspect of the entire thing.

[kilog]

to High Power Swimbaits:

 

Ok so what you are saying is that there is no innovation in swimbaits because bait makers are wary of their ideas being stolen. I can buy that. That's a shame.

 

As far as feeling "entitled" to a product...that is ridiculous. I have owned a Hinkle and didn't care for it, so I sold it,to a friend. Other friends of mine, however, have been on a list for years and get no reply to emails. Yes this is the USA, and just as Hinkle has the right not to reply to people or sell someone a bait, people have the right to speak their minds about his business practices.

[High Power Swimbaits]

to High Power Swimbaits:

 

Ok so what you are saying is that there is no innovation in swimbaits because bait makers are wary of their ideas being stolen. I can buy that. That's a shame.

 

As far as feeling "entitled" to a product...that is ridiculous. I have owned a Hinkle and didn't care for it, so I sold it,to a friend. Other friends of mine, however, have been on a list for years and get no reply to emails. Yes this is the USA, and just as Hinkle has the right not to reply to people or sell someone a bait, people have the right to speak their minds about his business practices.

I have no problem with people speaking their mind. I speak mine plenty. Other than the innovation part the reply wasn't really a reply directly to you but the few people saying all of this is OK because they can't get a Hinkle or he won't answer their emails. I think you stopped short of that. Right now I think I have 1,400 emails and growing by the day. I don't know how many Andrew gets or anything he is doing. He may be leading people to believe they are getting a bait they will never get for all I know. But I know I can't answer all of my emails or make close to all the baits people want. I am just saying that doesn't give ABT a right to steal or for a consumer to justify buying an ABT.

[kilog]

to High Power Swimbaits:

 

Ok so what you are saying is that there is no innovation in swimbaits because bait makers are wary of their ideas being stolen. I can buy that. That's a shame.

 

As far as feeling "entitled" to a product...that is ridiculous. I have owned a Hinkle and didn't care for it, so I sold it,to a friend. Other friends of mine, however, have been on a list for years and get no reply to emails. Yes this is the USA, and just as Hinkle has the right not to reply to people or sell someone a bait, people have the right to speak their minds about his business practices.

I have no problem with people speaking their mind. I speak mine plenty. Other than the innovation part the reply wasn't really a reply directly to you but the few people saying all of this is OK because they can't get a Hinkle or he won't answer their emails. I think you stopped short of that. Right now I think I have 1,400 emails and growing by the day. I don't know how many Andrew gets or anything he is doing. He may be leading people to believe they are getting a bait they will never get for all I know. But I know I can't answer all of my emails or make close to all the baits people want. I am just saying that doesn't give ABT a right to steal or for a consumer to justify buying an ABT.

 

Wow, that is a lot of email Randall. I imagine that would be just about impossible for one person to handle. Don't get me wrong, I think what ABT did is just horrible. Pretty stupid too. I mean, it's a pretty small niche they cater to. I won't be purchasing any of their products, that's for sure.

 

By the way, caught a five pounder on the 9" gizzard glide in a golf course water hazard the other day. It was like 115 degrees out and there are no gizzard shad there either haha. I really like that bait.

[Mattlures]

I have to agree with Randall. There are ideas and prototypes that aren't being shown. As a bait maker you cant just release a new bait with a new concept. If you think its something different or special you only have a couple good options. You can patent it and then you may need to defend it. That is not always a great option because you never know if your idea is going to be home run or a flop. You may think its the greatest bait ever but the customers may not agree. You also don't know if it will blow up later on like the Deps did. Another option is to attempt to make a ton of baits and hope you can meet most of your demand before the thieves come. Again this is a gamble because most new idea baits don't just take off over night so you could be investing months or even years worth of work hoping that once you release your new innovative bait that the customers will love it and you will not have waisted a bunch of time and money. It is a gamble and a tight rope. Or you can just hope that nobody will copy you.

The one thing that some customers seem to miss is that a lot of times when a bait really blows up and the market is flooded with originals and knock offs The bite is probably going to suffer. When there is a limited amount of a great bait then that makes it that much better. Not only is the bait great but the fish aren't getting over exposed to it. My point is, if I was a customer and there was a bait that I knew was that good and in short supply. I would get one if I could afford it and I would be happy that others couldn't or wouldn't pay to get one.

[dmayer88]

Right now I think I have 1,400 emails and growing by the day. I don't know how many Andrew gets or anything he is doing. He may be leading people to believe they are getting a bait they will never get for all I know. But I know I can't answer all of my emails or make close to all the baits people want. I am just saying that doesn't give ABT a right to steal or for a consumer to justify buying an ABT.

 

Maybe a little off point here....but I think you guys should set up an automated email reply.

"Your email has been received, I answer emails in the order they are recieved......."

I'm sure most of us have recieved an, "I'm out of the office until next week" bounce back email.

It may buy you some time without people thinking you read the email and ignored it.

Again, completely off base from this thread....but something I thought of while reading.