SwimbaitsatLMV Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 I thought he meant fishing wise. And I have had several discussions w/ bill about baits and colors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btbdodgers Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 bills also winning all these damnnn tournaments too, around this way anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offduty Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 I have caught fish on all different types of swimbaits, Hudds, John Hopkins, 3:16 and some good ones on a Stocker trout too. To me sometimes the swimbait bite is on and sometimes it is not. I certainly feel that innovation drives the industry. Look at the Stocker Trout a lot of guys dont like it, they hate the wings and think its ugly. I dont think it is the most realistic looking trout bait but I am pretty sure those wings give off a vibration that fish feel and it gets them keyed up. I have all types of baits for different applications and the best of my swimbait fish have come from 25' of water or deeper. I think when it comes to deep swimbaiting fish feed a lot on vibration and profile. I think if you were in 25' of water looking at a real trout it would be pretty dark and most of what you would see is just a profile. I dont take a lot of pictures when I fish, honestly I dont want anyone to know my favorite spots. I am not looking for internet swimbait fisherman notoriety. I love to be on the water fishing and it is usually what is on my mind. I go on forums like these to learn as much as I can. Obviously there are going to be a lot of different opinions on this topic and thats cool. To me that just shows the beauty of the God given freewill that we all have and I know I cherish and protect mine all the time. Life would be boring and not worth much if we all thought the same. The best bait makers will keep making the best baits and for that I am grateful as I will be fishing my favorites. I am not on the forum to try and change anyone, I dont care for bed fishing but thats just me and if its your thing I ant going to bash you for it. I may go flip senko's or shakey head all day because that is working well. You may fish swimbaits only and go for days without a bite, I have done that too. I am not sure what a poser is unless it is a liar or the guys from Wild Hogs. but if a guy wants to make a BBZ that to some resembles a Rago tool or Hudd look alike Bass harasser thats fine with me as I have the choice in what to buy and fish. I dont wish ill will or want to change anyone I dont believe people change unless they want to and have justified that they need to. I appreciate the forum a great deal and it is refreshing to hear the differences in opinion that we all have and learn what is working for others and what new products are coming out. All the best to you guys for 2011 Richard Lund Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimbaitrookie Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 I surmise from this that a BBZ is considered a knock-off of 3:16 baits. Am I reading this right? Outside of the fact that they are both jointed swimbaits, I don't see any real similarities. Is a bullshad a knock-off? What about a KC shad? Sorry, but I guess being a neophyte, I don't know all the history here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDHanson79 Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 I have caught fish on all different types of swimbaits, Hudds, John Hopkins, 3:16 and some good ones on a Stocker trout too. To me sometimes the swimbait bite is on and sometimes it is not. I certainly feel that innovation drives the industry. Look at the Stocker Trout a lot of guys dont like it, they hate the wings and think its ugly. I dont think it is the most realistic looking trout bait but I am pretty sure those wings give off a vibration that fish feel and it gets them keyed up. I have all types of baits for different applications and the best of my swimbait fish have come from 25' of water or deeper. I think when it comes to deep swimbaiting fish feed a lot on vibration and profile. I think if you were in 25' of water looking at a real trout it would be pretty dark and most of what you would see is just a profile. I dont take a lot of pictures when I fish, honestly I dont want anyone to know my favorite spots. I am not looking for internet swimbait fisherman notoriety. I love to be on the water fishing and it is usually what is on my mind. I go on forums like these to learn as much as I can. Obviously there are going to be a lot of different opinions on this topic and thats cool. To me that just shows the beauty of the God given freewill that we all have and I know I cherish and protect mine all the time. Life would be boring and not worth much if we all thought the same. The best bait makers will keep making the best baits and for that I am grateful as I will be fishing my favorites. I am not on the forum to try and change anyone, I dont care for bed fishing but thats just me and if its your thing I ant going to bash you for it. I may go flip senko's or shakey head all day because that is working well. You may fish swimbaits only and go for days without a bite, I have done that too. I am not sure what a poser is unless it is a liar or the guys from Wild Hogs. but if a guy wants to make a BBZ that to some resembles a Rago tool or Hudd look alike Bass harasser thats fine with me as I have the choice in what to buy and fish. I dont wish ill will or want to change anyone I dont believe people change unless they want to and have justified that they need to. I appreciate the forum a great deal and it is refreshing to hear the differences in opinion that we all have and learn what is working for others and what new products are coming out. All the best to you guys for 2011 Richard Lund Well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDBEAD Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 I surmise from this that a BBZ is considered a knock-off of 3:16 baits. Am I reading this right? Outside of the fact that they are both jointed swimbaits, I don't see any real similarities. Is a bullshad a knock-off? What about a KC shad? Sorry, but I guess being a neophyte, I don't know all the history here. BBZ looks like a Rago, not a 3:16. Bill S. got into an internet war about two years ago because of a bluegill he was going to produce with SPRO that appeared similar to a Mattlures Gill. So far, I have not seen SPRO produce that bait but he apparently had a proto at ICAST. The High Power Herring vs. Bullshad is not too well known, but there are discrepancies between who designed what and when it was done. Randall can better explain that and my loyalty lies with him. There are also pics circulating of Bucca posing with fish that were electroshocked by the DNR and he uses them for promotional purposes with the BS. With so much drama in the LBC, it's kinda hard being Snoop D-O double G.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronzefly Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 With so much drama in the LBC, it's kinda hard being Snoop D-O double G.... Now that was funny Regarding knockoffs, I just don't buy them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobk Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 It is not a fact that there are no new ideas out there, just very few who have them. there is no stopping knockoffs, unless your pockets are well lined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalliebigs Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Action is like a smell, you can't really claim ownership. Chances are its been done before, maybe even by accident or a different way. Being first can justify a premium price, but any manufacturer who expects that alone to justify the price in perpetuity is fooling themselves. If the product is truly innovative, different, or just pure quality the price can be justified even if somebody knocks it off. If people perceive the value (or even scarcity), they will pay for it. It is like the difference between an original painting, a limited edition print, and a mass printing. They might all look good on the wall, but people know the difference. 3:16 is a good example of a tangible difference in quality/uniqueness justifying a price. A good example of the opposite is a proven fish catcher that was once a hot bait and fairly unique at first. You could hardly find one in stock. Reportedly swam at any speed and was a big catcher. I knew it came with cheap hooks and a paint job that was mediocre at best, but it was highly regarded and I wanted one if it performed to its reputation. They finally became available, I put my $60 down for one and found it would turn on its side at anything above a "medium" speed. This is the kind of product screaming for free market competition, and competition came. There are baits available at half the price that are better quality now, and the baits available at $60 are twice the quality. Do they catch fish as well? There's only one way to find out and I'll give competition a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaozu Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 I dont care who made what, I fish to catch fish! Period! I'll let the bait makers worry about who's stealing their business. If there's business to be stolen, obviously you did something wrong and only have yourself to blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Baiter Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 With so much drama in the LBC, it's kinda hard being Snoop D-O double G.... Now that was funny Regarding knockoffs, I just don't buy them. Somehow someway, Mickey keeps making funky ### baits like every single day..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDBEAD Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 With so much drama in the LBC, it's kinda hard being Snoop D-O double G.... Now that was funny Regarding knockoffs, I just don't buy them. Somehow someway, Mickey keeps making funky ### baits like every single day..... LOL Danny, I wish they were on the site every single day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalliebigs Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 According to Webster -- knock off: a copy that sells for less than the original; broadly : a copy or imitation of someone or something popular Companies also knock-off certain aspects while changing others to fill needs in the marketplace. Maybe the concept is similar, but the style or durability or colors are changed. We tend to be more forgiving of this, but in the market place is cost really any less important an aspect than the others? Do you perceive the same value? Does it catch as many fish? Only one way to know.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizard5 Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 quality is all that counts :_) i have a buddy who bought a couple cheap(er) 'tru tungsten' trout baits, we swam 'em next to my RD and now he wants 1(or more) himself. so it is initial quality and innovation that will always prevail, not to say that a little competition is bad :_) andre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashtest Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Knock offs have their place... They teach the new angler to save his money for the real thing (see above post). It's not to say that you cant catch a fish on them or that you won't enjoy the catch just as much, but more often then not you will have an issue with the action of the bait or the build quality. In my experience any product made by a person who cares about their product rather then a cheep machine or unskilled laborer, will out preform and outlast any knock off by a long shot. Save your money, by the bait you actually want not its less expensive mass produced copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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