Sharelunker program cons?

[SwingAway]

Just got done watching ANOTHER video on the program. Anybody else ever think about the cons of something like this? Seems like they could potentially just be saturating the gene pool with fish that feed in just one dominant way. Yes, we're big bait folks, so it's easy to cheer on in some ways, but I can't help but wonder if they're just predominantly using the genes of fish eating A-rigs and swimbaits to plant other waters. Aren't those next generations just going to be predisposed to being caught by the "average" weekend angler and made more educated? Seems like it has the potential to quickly replace other feeding  patterned fish with nothing other than fish genetically trained to eat big meals that everybody and their grandma knows what to throw for to get an instagram photo with. If texas wants to be the guinea pig, that's fine, but I hope other states wait to see the long-term results before implementing similar programs. I'd rather have rare 10 pounders in 10 years than a fishery killed by tourists and dumb/smart fish! Lastly, not every fishery in the same state has habitat even remotely close to the one the "best genes" (biggest fish) come from. Maybe focus on habitat lake by lake first. Sorry, i just dont think the program should be praised so much just quite yet. Lets let it play out first. Rant over. Go fishing.

Edited June 9, 2023 by SwingAway

[tHeINFamoUS]

…..so your thesis here…..is that you have a preference for lakes with no big fish, instead of lakes with lots of big fish?

[SwingAway]

3 minutes ago, tHeINFamoUS said:

…..so your thesis here…..is that you have a preference for lakes with no big fish, instead of lakes with lots of big fish?

Try reading it again.

[I_dont_fish_swimbaits]

Fish don’t have a genome that assigns them to eat in one specific way. Bass are one of if not the most opportunistic predatory fish in north america. Bass don’t have genes that tell them to eat shad over shiners or gills etc. they eat what gives them energy and is easiest to get. In texas, bass aren’t genetically and instinctually driven to eat shad its just that they know that a big fat gizzard swimming right in front of them is the most readily available source of food so it the fish is sitting on offshore brushpiles in 30ft why should it swim up shallow to find gills. I think the genetic breeding part of the share lunker program is great i just have my concerns on how it affects a lake when it already has a stable population of bass

[tHeINFamoUS]

1 minute ago, SwingAway said:

Try reading it again.

I did…..still sounds silly……what am I missing?

[SwingAway]

3 minutes ago, tHeINFamoUS said:

I did…..still sounds silly……what am I missing?

I think maybe I'm missing the part where I said I'd prefer lakes with no big fish. Or maybe you imagined that?

[SwingAway]

10 minutes ago, I_dont_fish_swimbaits said:

Fish don’t have a genome that assigns them to eat in one specific way. Bass are one of if not the most opportunistic predatory fish in north america. Bass don’t have genes that tell them to eat shad over shiners or gills etc. they eat what gives them energy and is easiest to get. In texas, bass aren’t genetically and instinctually driven to eat shad its just that they know that a big fat gizzard swimming right in front of them is the most readily available source of food so it the fish is sitting on offshore brushpiles in 30ft why should it swim up shallow to find gills. I think the genetic breeding part of the share lunker program is great i just have my concerns on how it affects a lake when it already has a stable population of bass

So genetics don't often dictate where bass tend to position and feed? Seems the literature I've read points to the opposite. You have fish that are predisposed to spend the summer months in the tules and in shade and you have separate metapopulations that head to deep shelves, points, etc. Those instincts are absolutely influenced by genetics.

[tHeINFamoUS]

A 10lber, ten years from now……is a small fish at present. And rare would imply there’s few with potential to even get there.  

[SwingAway]

14 minutes ago, tHeINFamoUS said:

A 10lber, ten years from now……is a small fish at present. And rare would imply there’s few with potential to even get there.  

Haha, that's pretty obvious ish man. Never said small fish can't get big. However, I will say that genetic bottlenecks can lead to populations that aren't resilient in the face of habitat and fishing pressure changes. The lakes that have stood the test of time have shallow populations, deep populations, cawdad eaters, shad eaters, etc. You form a population that come from fish almost exclusively caught positioned and feeding in a certain way, you lose that resiliency in the fishery. Droughts happen. Tourists / IG followers chasers happen. Create an entire population positioning and feeding similarly, I'm not certain how long the oh ivie types of fisheries will/can last. That's all I'm saying brotha.

Just think folks should focus on enhancing diverse high quality habitats before genetics if we want long lasting quality big fish fisheries (not big fish factories)

Edited June 9, 2023 by SwingAway

[Jon P]

Personally I've always wanted a ShareLunker program like what Texas has in Montana. We don't have any bass hatcheries, no state stocking of bass, a lot of pressure from people snagging bass and eating reproducing females, and a lot of lakes with stunted fish. I wouldn't worry about the program making the population predisposed to "stupid" fish, as stupid fish get wiped out of the gene pool. Need some genetic diversity? Grab some fish from electroshock surveys! that'll give you some good genetic diversity. 

Now imagine if you took some of the fattest northern strain fish you've ever seen, talking about 20" eight pound chunks and breeding them with some of the gangliest Florida strain fish (world record's length was a mere 25.6", while 32" bass have been allegedly recorded in florida) you'd get some of the longest, fattest meanest F1s you ever did see. Might they be more prone to munching swimbaits? Man, I hope so!

[chefchris]

I mean it’s been around since 1986, 37 years running 

if fish were going to only feed a certain way from genetics you would already be seeing this take effect and probably more mortality or smaller if fish are only feeding a certain way. 

i think genetics might play a role into how fish stage throughout the year but not necessarily but they eat.

A hungry fish is a hungry fish and isn’t going to pass up a big gill if it’s parent genetics preferred Shad. I mean I love steak but I didn’t get fat just eating steak. 

Rhode Island use to have a warm water hatchery and there were some monsters in there. Pike as well. When it closed down they all got dispersed. They never disclosed what ponds like they do with trout. But that was also 20 plus years ago. 

i would love to see a share lunker program in New England (I think some other NE states do warm water hatcheries as I’ve seen one I believe in New Hampshire but again years ago) 

[Jon P]

1 minute ago, chefchris said:

I mean I love steak but I didn’t get fat just eating steak. 

"now speaking as a lunker myself"

Personally I'm a bit like the fish in my profile pic, freaky long and stupid skinny

[swimbaitrookie]

The OP's concerns about saturating the gene pool are unrealistic.  Here's an excerpt from the 2021 Fisheries Management report for Lake Fork prepared by TPWD.  Studying the entire report is highly recommended if you really want to understand the dynamics of the fishery, but to address the "gene pool" issue the stocking history and genetics analysis should answer that.  Even though the lake has been stocked with Florida strain bass for decades, the gene pool is dominated by first and second generation hybrids of Fla and northern LMB. 

I believe there is another report that lists the number of recent SL bass caught that have the genetics of previous SL's and I recall that percentage to be extremely low as well.

The reports of other Texas lakes such as the hot one, OH Ivie, show similar results.

 

 

[Mossyback Angler]

11 hours ago, SwingAway said:

So genetics don't often dictate where bass tend to position and feed? Seems the literature I've read points to the opposite. You have fish that are predisposed to spend the summer months in the tules and in shade and you have separate metapopulations that head to deep shelves, points, etc. Those instincts are absolutely influenced by genetics.

Out of curiosity where can one read this literature you are referring to?  I would be interested in reading it.

My opinion in simple terms is a bass is going to adapt to its environment and eat whatever it wants to eat, in order to survive. I don’t think through breeding, the offspring genetics will be influenced by what artificial lure it’s mating pairs were caught on. 
I do believe there is inherent intelligence though. That bass can be conditioned to avoid certain situations, including eating a particular bait or lure it’s been caught on. Even that, is going to be determined by year of class of the wild hatched bass, not hatchery born.

In other words, for simple terms, one bait is very productive for many years, many anglers are using said bait, until the bass in a fishery learns to avoid it. A new baits comes out and all of a sudden them same fish are actively biting the new bait until that looses its appeal, through the same cycle. Fast forward a bit, that older first bait, since it hasn’t been used in quite some time, all of sudden starts to get bit again. I feel the younger fish were not accustomed to that older bait due to anglers adapting and using newer baits and so the cycle begins again.
(I really hope I am making sense)

I personally would like to see a “Share A Lunker” program like this in my area. I don’t think it’s meant for every fishery. But for those waters that could sustain larger fish with proper habitat and forage base, I think it would be beneficial for anglers. 
 

Interesting topic though. 

[swimbaitrookie]

Here's the TPWD page for the fisheries management reports.

https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/pwdpubs/lake_survey/pwd_rp_t3200_1293/#download

Since moving to AZ I've been able to find their reports so I'd expect all F&G departments have similar reports since they're funded by the Sport Fish Restoration act.