Direct tie baits

[ay_brother]

Just curious if there is any correlation for knot strength/line degradation with direct tie vs a snap or split ring? I’ve casted off *several* glides at this point that are direct tie… I retie often. I’ve even imparted action on a Spro Chad once with handle turns and suddenly line goes limp… gone …

Meanwhile I have baits with a split ring at the tie (my deps 175 for example) that I’ve - without exaggeration - casted thousands of times without single issue.  Is there greater friction on a direct tie possibly? Curious of others’ experiences or thoughts… 

[Fried Lemons]

Does your line break at the loop of the knot? Did you check the line ties? I have had this happen before and recovered the baits. Usually there's a burr or something that chafes the line. This can be caused by adding and removing a split ring to the line tie or possibly even paint chipping creating a rough surface.

[Gray]

There is more friction, I tie direct to my Clutch Darter and notice the knot shifts around from the center to the left or right after a couple casts. That being said. unless the line tie is damaged and cutting though the line I don't see direct tying being the issue. I'd be more inclined to believe the knot/line are the issue. 

[SacPig916]

If you are using a .092 screw to direct tie to, i highly suggest putting a owner solid ring on it to lower the diameter, rather than going to a snap.  I avoid all unnecessary weak points and I think the moment you tie any snap on, you are introducing a failure point, however small it is.  The same goes with using split rings, however not all baits you can open the eyelet to swap in for a solid ring. 

However... there is another issue that is often overlooked.  When bait makers tune their baits, some do so by grabbing the eyelet and bending it left or right to correct the straightness on retrieve.  When doing this, they leave small and sharp abrasions on the screw itself.  Not all baits have this issue.  

 

[bassbass]

I tie direct to 95% of all my baits and never had a problem. Yes I have casted baits way off but my have been a human error, maybe not wet enough when tieing down, line wrapped around guide, so on.

[ay_brother]

Appreciate the perspectives… 

What knot are you guys using for flouro? I’ve been using 17lb for lighter applications and 20lb for slightly heavier. 

[gary m]

I use a palomar knot for all my baits even my trout that weighs 15.75 oz just always make sure lines are not crossed ,when cinching down  wet real good you will never break off or throw off again i use 20# fc sniper for everything

[ay_brother]

15 hours ago, Fried Lemons said:

Does your line break at the loop of the knot? Did you check the line ties? I have had this happen before and recovered the baits. Usually there's a burr or something that chafes the line. This can be caused by adding and removing a split ring to the line tie or possibly even paint chipping creating a rough surface.

it does seem that it breaks at the knot. ive never been able to recover any of these baits to check the ties unfortunately... but several times i've noticed a slight "curve" to the line where the break is or "kinking" if that makes sense? i do every thing short of hawking a loogey on the line to lubricate it during the knot process haha. ive tried various knots (mike bucca's braid knot, palomar, SD jam) / lines thus far 17 to 20lb (fc sniper, abrasx, invisx).  the only common denominator i've found thus far is direct line ties.  havent tried monofilament yet - from my understanding it's a bit less finicky with knot anomalies?  i may just be one unlucky cat ha.

[brootalititties]

This might sound weird but this is the main reason that I prefer baits with a horizontal line tie when I direct tie. My hypothesis is that there is less side to side movement (I also use a knot with 2 points of contact rather than 1) than with a vertical linetie where I feel the knot can rotate around the thin diameter of the wire/line tie and cause premature wear on the knot, particularly when there are tool marks as previously mentioned. This is probably way overboard but it’s something i take into consideration and coincidentally I’ve found most the baits I use fall into this pattern of vertical line tie with  a snap/spilt and horizontal line tie baits get tied direct. There are a few exceptions but it’s a general rule of thumb for me. Maybe I’m just crazy 

Edited August 16, 2023 by brootalititties

[SacPig916]

2 hours ago, ay_brother said:

it does seem that it breaks at the knot. ive never been able to recover any of these baits to check the ties unfortunately... but several times i've noticed a slight "curve" to the line where the break is or "kinking" if that makes sense? i do every thing short of hawking a loogey on the line to lubricate it during the knot process haha. ive tried various knots (mike bucca's braid knot, palomar, SD jam) / lines thus far 17 to 20lb (fc sniper, abrasx, invisx).  the only common denominator i've found thus far is direct line ties.  havent tried monofilament yet - from my understanding it's a bit less finicky with knot anomalies?  i may just be one unlucky cat ha.

In a nutshell, for anything stretchy, use a SDJ, for anything brittle or *MOST* braids a Uni knot will work out.  These 2 knots preform better than nearly every knot for their application.  Unless you get an inline scale and do all your testing for the line of your choice, these 2 are by far the safest knots to use, don't exceeded 7 loops/twists.  

I do prefer the way I tie mine, there is 1 step that I think really helps create a stronger SDJ. https://www.instagram.com/p/CfqvIQED3-t/

Edited August 16, 2023 by SacPig916

[BPayne]

I’ve been using the Double Pitzen for a few years now and that knot is phenomenal!  I do use snaps for all hard baits, but my snap is tied on with a Double Pitzen and I’ve yet to have it fail at the knot (I have had line breakages).  Best of luck to you

[Gray]

10 hours ago, ay_brother said:

it does seem that it breaks at the knot. ive never been able to recover any of these baits to check the ties unfortunately... but several times i've noticed a slight "curve" to the line where the break is or "kinking" if that makes sense? i do every thing short of hawking a loogey on the line to lubricate it during the knot process haha. ive tried various knots (mike bucca's braid knot, palomar, SD jam) / lines thus far 17 to 20lb (fc sniper, abrasx, invisx).  the only common denominator i've found thus far is direct line ties.  havent tried monofilament yet - from my understanding it's a bit less finicky with knot anomalies?  i may just be one unlucky cat ha.

If you're used to using 20lb Abrazx you can go up to 25lb FC Sniper, it has the same diameter. I usually use the Double Pitzen for fluoro and the improved uni knot with 12+ turns for braid. I sometimes dip the knot in the water before but usually use saliva. You might be over tightening the knot, I've noticed that some fluoros only stretch once or twice before they stop stretching. Maybe that combined with the increased friction is the problem? Hope you figure out the problem. 

[ay_brother]

6 hours ago, BPayne said:

I’ve been using the Double Pitzen for a few years now and that knot is phenomenal!  I do use snaps for all hard baits, but my snap is tied on with a Double Pitzen and I’ve yet to have it fail at the knot (I have had line breakages).  Best of luck to you

 

50 minutes ago, Gray said:

If you're used to using 20lb Abrazx you can go up to 25lb FC Sniper, it has the same diameter. I usually use the Double Pitzen for fluoro and the improved uni knot with 12+ turns for braid. I sometimes dip the knot in the water before but usually use saliva. You might be over tightening the knot, I've noticed that some fluoros only stretch once or twice before they stop stretching. Maybe that combined with the increased friction is the problem? Hope you figure out the problem. 

I actually tossed a Rafa glide earlier today (with an owner hyper wire split ring out front) using the double Pitzen knot… landed this one on a strike right next to the yak. Between losing baits and fish smashing me 5 feet from the boat, swimbaiting is going to give me heart disease…

 

[Gray]

11 minutes ago, ay_brother said:

 

I actually tossed a Rafa glide earlier today (with an owner hyper wire split ring out front) using the double Pitzen knot… landed this one on a strike right next to the yak. Between losing baits and fish smashing me 5 feet from the boat, swimbaiting is going to give me heart disease…

 

I broke off a K9 during the winter and couldn't get it back and a Clutch Darter last month which I was able to recover 3 weeks after I lost it. The moment it got broken off probably took 1-2 years off of my life.

[ay_brother]

Just now, Gray said:

I broke off a K9 during the winter and couldn't get it back and a Clutch Darter last month which I was able to recover 3 weeks after I lost it. The moment it got broken off probably took 1-2 years off of my life.

It’s the worst man