Catch and release

[dragger]

Fisheries seems like such a twisted logic at times, but the science behind my statements is not twisted at all. I don't support taking many trophy fish, but a few here and there isn't that bad either, seriously. Colby, I have great respect for you as an angler and I think your thinking out of the box, like in this case, is what separates your catches from most. Message me if you want some literature on this topic. I was a skeptic too when I entered the field and the bass fisherman in my still doesn't accept all of this information easily!

[Bassindon69]

Fisheries seems like such a twisted logic at times, but the science behind my statements is not twisted at all. I don't support taking many trophy fish, but a few here and there isn't that bad either, seriously. Colby, I have great respect for you as an angler and I think your thinking out of the box, like in this case, is what separates your catches from most. Message me if you want some literature on this topic. I was a skeptic too when I entered the field and the bass fisherman in my still doesn't accept all of this information easily!

 

I talk to a ranger at a lake that stopped stocking trout. Plus is doing the Quagga BS inspections. I asked him why they stopped, He said they were not native I said most likely nothing here is Because in a few years now I NEVER got the RIGHT answer of why? Just got tired of not getting any reply anymore. Sometimes I wonder if it was yet just another knee jerk reaction thing of lost fun. I got the answer it's about Salmon waters and that BS and I told them that lake has nothing to do with Salmon Then said they would have a biologist get hold of me for an answer because it was likely one of 40 some species on the Endangered list. I wonder if they know they may have chased off an Eagle that used to fish there too. I wonder who started all this (unstocking and quagga crap) Is there any org fighting this? If so WE should get involved. The freedoms lost these days are not funny.

I then asked the guy if you don't know much about whats going on why do what you do? He said "its a job" I just don't get how parks can say they need money yet dropped all trout fishermen from coming to the lake? Plus now pay for full time inspections . Just posted this because maybe you know more about this

[colbypearson]

I asked him why they stopped, He said they were not native I said most likely nothing here is Because in a few years now I NEVER got the RIGHT answer of why? Just got tired of not getting any reply anymore. Sometimes I wonder if it was yet just another knee jerk reaction thing of lost fun. I got the answer it's about Salmon waters and that BS and I told them that lake has nothing to do with Salmon Just posted this because maybe you know more about this

 

I know all about that, I just have one question.....How long have you lived in Oregon!!!?

[dragger]

Don, I worked as a Park Ranger in So Cal at a very popular lake a few years back and am very familiar with the mussel issue. What he told you was incorrect. The inspections are to stop spreading Quagga to other lakes and has nothing to do with trout or salmon. Even if that lake has them, they still search boats to prevent spread to other lakes. This is really a good thing, however you are right, an incredible waste of resources. I wouldn't say that they should remove these stations, but should re-evaluate how they educate both staff and anglers on the damage these little buggers do.

 

Trout stocking was stopped for a variety of reasons, but largely because of the spread of disease hatchery fish can transmit, genetic pollution (captive fish spawn with wild fish), and some bone heads managed to convince legislatures that the trout were eating endangered frogs and other native wildlife. I agree with the first two, but recognize that these successful reservoirs and fisheries that both endangered frogs and people alike enjoy only exist through trout. They will go ahead and close it and let it be a pure frog sanctuary if they believe that is more important than recreational angling and outdoor activities for people if people do not speak up.

 

Native species will always trump introduced, like bass vs. salmon/trout. Plain and simple fact. If a small minnow or wild salmonid is threatened, extreme measures will be taken to preserve that species and remove what ever is impeding its success. Do I agree? Yes and no. All species play a role in the ecosystem, whether we know what they do exactly is insignificant, and their disappearance is a reflection of the health of the ecosystem. Whether it is introduced bass eating them, poor water quality from pollution, or global warming ( ), the state and national agencies will do all they can to figure out the issue and save the species. That species in decline doesn't exist just to say "Hi," to other fish, it is a significant species that plays an equally significant role that a more desirable species does. Bass eat everything so they are on every agencies "undesirable" list, especially in Western states where salmonids are struggling.

 

What do I suggest? Get involved. The amount of private trout conservation groups is growing rapidly and their agendas are being written into law as a result of their progressive ideas and active involvement. Bass fishermen need to fund research for the benefits of bass like trout fishermen have for starters.

 

Speak with your local biologist directly, ask them questions and give input NOT criticism. They have a lot to say and like to hear from the public. Don't cry about a guy who caught an 8 pound bass and ate it, mention the decline you have seen in the fishery over time. Form or join bass clubs NOT focused on big fast boats, big checks, and big egos, but preservation of the fishery and sport. Sounds stupid and crazy? It is not. A local conservation association I am an active member of took some input and pushed the fisheries agency to remove the size limit on smallmouth bass in a local stream to grow bigger bass. The fisheries agency agreed and the bass fishing has been phenomenal, data shows the best it has ever been and native species originally threatened, have recovered fully. A win win. Go to your town's public hearings and help educate non-fishing parties on the positives of bass fishing and don't let them just read the negative things in newspapers or hear elsewhere.

 

I think a lot of anglers are content complaining about bass fisheries with each other, but never really take the step to talk to the people in charge. This forum has a lot of CA guys and if you want the trophy fisheries back from the 80's and 90's we all read about, get together and make something happen. Fish offs are cute and all, but form a Trophy Bass Alliance or something like that focused on preserving big bass fisheries. Try and get some things to change on your local bodies of water before someone else with the initiative and conflicting beliefs does and you can only sit back and watch things get worse.

 

I took the time to write a fraction of my thoughts on this matter and I hope some of you take a fraction of your time to read and seriously think about this stuff. Thanks.

[Bassindon69]

Don, I worked as a Park Ranger in So Cal at a very popular lake a few years back and am very familiar with the mussel issue. What he told you was incorrect. The inspections are to stop spreading Quagga to other lakes and has nothing to do with trout or salmon. Even if that lake has them, they still search boats to prevent spread to other lakes. This is really a good thing, however you are right, an incredible waste of resources. I wouldn't say that they should remove these stations, but should re-evaluate how they educate both staff and anglers on the damage these little buggers do.

 

Trout stocking was stopped for a variety of reasons, but largely because of the spread of disease hatchery fish can transmit, genetic pollution (captive fish spawn with wild fish), and some bone heads managed to convince legislatures that the trout were eating endangered frogs and other native wildlife. I agree with the first two, but recognize that these successful reservoirs and fisheries that both endangered frogs and people alike enjoy only exist through trout. They will go ahead and close it and let it be a pure frog sanctuary if they believe that is more important than recreational angling and outdoor activities for people if people do not speak up.

 

Native species will always trump introduced, like bass vs. salmon/trout. Plain and simple fact. If a small minnow or wild salmonid is threatened, extreme measures will be taken to preserve that species and remove what ever is impeding its success. Do I agree? Yes and no. All species play a role in the ecosystem, whether we know what they do exactly is insignificant, and their disappearance is a reflection of the health of the ecosystem. Whether it is introduced bass eating them, poor water quality from pollution, or global warming ( ), the state and national agencies will do all they can to figure out the issue and save the species. That species in decline doesn't exist just to say "Hi," to other fish, it is a significant species that plays an equally significant role that a more desirable species does. Bass eat everything so they are on every agencies "undesirable" list, especially in Western states where salmonids are struggling.

 

What do I suggest? Get involved. The amount of private trout conservation groups is growing rapidly and their agendas are being written into law as a result of their progressive ideas and active involvement. Bass fishermen need to fund research for the benefits of bass like trout fishermen have for starters.

 

Speak with your local biologist directly, ask them questions and give input NOT criticism. They have a lot to say and like to hear from the public. Don't cry about a guy who caught an 8 pound bass and ate it, mention the decline you have seen in the fishery over time. Form or join bass clubs NOT focused on big fast boats, big checks, and big egos, but preservation of the fishery and sport. Sounds stupid and crazy? It is not. A local conservation association I am an active member of took some input and pushed the fisheries agency to remove the size limit on smallmouth bass in a local stream to grow bigger bass. The fisheries agency agreed and the bass fishing has been phenomenal, data shows the best it has ever been and native species originally threatened, have recovered fully. A win win. Go to your town's public hearings and help educate non-fishing parties on the positives of bass fishing and don't let them just read the negative things in newspapers or hear elsewhere.

 

I think a lot of anglers are content complaining about bass fisheries with each other, but never really take the step to talk to the people in charge. This forum has a lot of CA guys and if you want the trophy fisheries back from the 80's and 90's we all read about, get together and make something happen. Fish offs are cute and all, but form a Trophy Bass Alliance or something like that focused on preserving big bass fisheries. Try and get some things to change on your local bodies of water before someone else with the initiative and conflicting beliefs does and you can only sit back and watch things get worse.

 

I took the time to write a fraction of my thoughts on this matter and I hope some of you take a fraction of your time to read and seriously think about this stuff. Thanks.

 

Will you please move up here and show me the way. NOT kidding. The reason I say this is I'm not the best with words or knowledge of this or how to go about it. I would be more worried I would get upset and get loud Then as you said they wont even listen to what I have to say. I think Rob Belloni got some things going up here for a lake or two. I'm not sure if he is even up here still. Then again I'm not sure they (if they have a group would even want me with them anyway I do understand about the Quagga's I have read a lot on them. I fished Irvine in so-cal then Quarantined myself for a few weeks (cleaned and dry in garage). I play by the rules. I even had friends say I would just go anyway. I would tell them lets hope you never fish in a lake with them then. I will check around, if anyone here knows a group or even would like me to be a part of a local group or if anyone would like to get one together I'm all ears. I will try to hold back my frustration

[Bassindon69]

Oh yes, And I THANK YOU for that time you spent on all that for me/us

[dragger]

Oh yes, And I THANK YOU for that time you spent on all that for me/us

 

Don, I left CA because the state is just facing too much for the government, people, and fisheries agencies to handle and I really don't want to come back. Haha. Only thing I miss is the big bass and Mexican food. Rob Belloni did some great things and it's a shame calfishing faded away, some truly great people that shared some real information.

 

Emails work great for tempers. From what I have seen Don, I think you would be a good person to organize something along these lines. I'm not joking when I say bass fishermen need an organization that would promote their fishery. New York has many and they do very well implementing special changes and progressive management practices in my opinion. The same should be applicable to many states, but especially with the amount of dedicated anglers.

 

Thank you for reading Don and your input. You have good things to say and you should take your ideas to listening ears and see where it will go. Frustration is a good thing, it shows invested interest in what you believe in.

[Bassindon69]

Oh yes, And I THANK YOU for that time you spent on all that for me/us

 

Don, I left CA because the state is just facing too much for the government, people, and fisheries agencies to handle and I really don't want to come back. Haha. Only thing I miss is the big bass and Mexican food. Rob Belloni did some great things and it's a shame calfishing faded away, some truly great people that shared some real information.

 

Emails work great for tempers. From what I have seen Don, I think you would be a good person to organize something along these lines. I'm not joking when I say bass fishermen need an organization that would promote their fishery. New York has many and they do very well implementing special changes and progressive management practices in my opinion. The same should be applicable to many states, but especially with the amount of dedicated anglers.

 

Thank you for reading Don and your input. You have good things to say and you should take your ideas to listening ears and see where it will go. Frustration is a good thing, it shows invested interest in what you believe in.

 

AWESOME! Well, iI agree with ALL of this! haha! I was just thinking today.... Man, am I going to have to leave this state? The ONLY thing keeping me here is Family at this time. My trouble in things I don't know to much about is how to get started and where to start, the rest should kind of fall into play I would think. Again THANKS! Great stuff.

[Ceaser]

I really appreciate the time and the depth in which you explained the topic. I have seen the haverst work on my familys ponds on property in GA on a small scale. some ponds are harvested and hold BIG ones and others are for the kids and all the fisha are let go, they are little 1.5 lb clones in those ponds. The catfish pond only has a few trasnplanted bass but those are the biggest. Intersting points you made, probably be hard to manage a small body of water to meet everyones needs, someone would complain. anyways, thanks for taking the time

[colbypearson]

Oh yes, And I THANK YOU for that time you spent on all that for me/us

+1

[dragger]

Thank you all for taking the time to read all of this and recognize my points. I look forward to you guys progressing trophy bass fishing and fisheries. Only takes 1 person to start.

[Dick Thompson]

There are 2 huge issues right now about trout stocking here in California. The first is the fact that DFG was sued by the Center for Biological Diversity (CBD) and other groups because their trout stocking program never had a Environmental Impact Report (EIR) done. According to the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA) any state agency must perform and EIR for any project it performs. I will post another long winded reply about the second issue. Please bear with me on this.

 

A little background on this. CBD and other environmentalist groups make a huge living by suing state agencies over the placement of species on the endangered species list. For example, they petition DFG to place spotted salamanders on the endangered species list, DFG refuses, because (for the lack of a better term) it is a pain in everyones ass to deal with a species on the endangered species list. So if DFG refuses, CBD will sue them, and if victorious, generally a judge will award legal fees to them. Generally they are represented Pro Bono. For instance, Stanford law students represented them when they sued over the trout stocking issue. The endangered Species act is a loosely worded outdated piece of legislation being exploited by environmentalist all over the United States. It is being used in ways never intended by its authors.

 

So back to the trout stocking. DFG reluctantly performed the EIR which was approved in January of 2010. According to the EIR, any body of water that is to be stocked must pass a pre-stocking evaluation. This is performed by DFG biologist. They check for any negative effects of planted trout on the body of water being stocked.

 

Many lakes easily pass these and trout stocking in a large amount of California waters was not interupted for very long.

 

I live between 2 of what used to be some of California's premier Trophy Bass Fisheries (Casitas and Castaic). We thought little of worrying about endangered species or frogs or any other thing. Little did we know that DFG would consider these lakes access to waters which have So Cal Steelhead (which are endangered). DFG informed us they would not be able to approve these waters for stocking because a stocked trout could wash over the dam and interact with a steelhead!!!! DFG said a steelhead could try and breed with a stocked trout and therefore it would destroy the genetic pool of the steelheads.

 

In March of 2010, I appeared before the DFG commission and spoke about the destruction of our local fisheries and opportunities to fish for trout in Ventura County. Currently no bodies of water are stocked. All of our streams have been destroyed because of this issue with steelhead. As most of you know it is nearly impossible for a trout to swim from Lake castaic and reach the ocean. But somehow Environmentalist groups can argue a stocked trout can wash over the lagoon spillway and screw up a steelhead!

 

At that meeting I met with DFG biologist who said their plan was to raise Triploid fish to eliminate the chance of the stocked trout breeding with a steelhead. They assured me the triploids would be ready in a year.

 

I thought at the time, "ok these big fish can hang in a year without trout then they can start stocking again." Nope, hasn't happened. Every year starts with me sending an email to DFG asking how the Triploids are coming and it always ends in the same reply "still waiting on (insert here) to approve this and it will be another year.

 

They have destroyed Casitas. Castaic Lagoon is now about the same. Both pathetic shells of themselves. Long skinny big headed fish that were teeners now weigh 8 pounds. Casitas completely died off. I cant remember the last 10 pounder that came out of there. The lagoon is not far behind.

 

So right now DFG is awaiting the completion of a Biological assessment of stocking triploid fish in our waters down here. Many other lakes are also on the same boat because of red legged frogs or whatever the hell else they can think of.

 

If anybody else can comment or correct any errors I might have stated please feel free to do so. I will post another reply on the second issue (Assembly bill 7 and senate Bill 1128)

[Dick Thompson]

Ok Part 2.

 

In 2005 AB7 was passed into legislation. This is the law which states that 33.3 percent of all our license money must be "spent" on trout stocking. In this legislation it states "goals" of stocking 2.75lbs of trout for every license sold. Annual license sales number around 2 million per year. 2 mill X 2.75lbs = 5.5mil lbs of trout per year to be stocked. The annual coffer for this is about 32 million dollars.

 

So to us fisherman, this sound great. Except for one fact, these are only goals for the program. The only law is the amount of money to be spent on stocking trout. Further research reveals that the bill was co authored by members of Cal-trout and the Fish hatchery workers union. So there you have it. The fish hatchery union basically got themselves 32 million dollars a year to pad their pockets. Cal-Trout, also has their fingers in the pie. But that is a whole other story.

 

In August of Last year Cal-Trout helped to co-author the Senate Bill SB 1148 which upgraded AB7. It maintains the "Goals" stated in AB7, but now states how funds the must be spent. Basically money has to be spent on facilities and developing native and heritage fish programs. It also created 8 new positions within the trout stocking program. It also states that Triploid fish must be stocked wherever necessary, and now says the DFG may "look" to outside sources to meet stocking "goals". So basically they did nothing to make the amount of trout stocked a law, but only the amount of money spent on trout stocking.

 

So as we speak, DFG has less lakes to plant, 32 million dollars to burn, and right now they are meeting about 60 percent of the goals stated in the Bills. I live 9 miles from Fillmore fish hatchery. Currently not one single body of water in Ventura county gets stocked. So you would think that the one lake that could get stocked (Upper Castaic) would get a larger amount of fish to make up for the lack of plants for the other places. But right now it gets less. DFG will not state the amount of trout being planted to people who ask. It is absolutely unacceptable to be giving them that amount of money and not know how its being spent. I have seen the arguing going on elsewhere because DVL gets huge amount of trout stocked while everyplace else is getting the shaft. I think Perris this year was getting the shaft. I saw it at the lagoon in late 2009 when the trout truck would show up and the guy would take a net and make about 5 scoops of 20 fish then leave and say the place was stocked.

 

So right now if you ask DFG they claim poverty. They don't have the facilities, the staff, the gas money, etc, etc, etc. Typical Govt program. In the late 80's they had no problems stocking almost every stream and lake here in Ventura county, now they can't even Stock one.

 

They whole thing gives me a headache. I am an engineer, not a biologist, so I lack some common knowledge of the basics of fisheries. I do understand, and have seen the impacts of taking the trout away from these big trophy bass. I know that stocking program is not intended to feed the bass, but it is by product of the trout stocking. It makes me sick to see the kids fishing off the fishing pier or the shoreline, knowing they don't have a snowballs chance of catching a fish.

 

At this point I am past giving a crap what happens. I don't have the room in my life to try and make sense of this. Maybe some of you will read this and we can all get together and make a difference. And remember, this is the interpretation of the facts from a biased guy who likes to stick big bass. Maybe I am seeing things wrong. But please take the time to research these things on your own. Don't take my word for it. Maybe someone else can provide some constructive advice for us all.

[donkeychaser]

That sucks. We are getting the shaft in the salt water with the closures and regulations too. Well written and informative.

[R8R]

That just sucks, can't trust any agency with money and promises.