2 Piece Wake Gill - Head & Tail Movement

[iboothroyd94]

I’ve been working on a resin 2 piece wake gill the past few months and it’s the first swimbait I’ve ever made - the first two pours went perfect and swim exactly how I imagined, with a natural looking evenly distributed amount of head and tail movement, and I’ve been catching tons of bass on them. 
 

For some reason now on a few of the new ones I’ve been pouring, the action is completely different with the head half thrashing back and forth and the tail half barely moving. I haven’t intentionally changed anything, but seeing as I eyeball some of the weighting and hand cut the joints, lip slot, and lips I know one of them has got to be the culprit. 
 

Does anyone know what would make the head and tail move more/less? More  or less weight in one half? Larger or smaller lip? Wider lip? 

Is aggressive head movement a bad thing? It looks strange but Ive got fish on the ones with all head movement as well. 

Picture below of one of the recently finished ones that swims great. 

[Jim137a]

I can’t help you with the swimming action but thats an incredible looking bait especially for a first effort.  

Looking forward to seeing some swim videos and your first bait drop. 

[iboothroyd94]

1 hour ago, Jim137a said:

I can’t help you with the swimming action but thats an incredible looking bait especially for a first effort.  

Looking forward to seeing some swim videos and your first bait drop. 

Thanks man, appreciate that! I’ll try to get out and film a quick swim video of the two types of action I’m referring to

[Staogtepi]

Yea great lookin bait! 

[danthefisherman]

I think I know what problem you are trying to describe. What sort of tail material and hardness are you using? It could be that it is hindering the side to side tail movement that you are aiming for (think of trying to swing a paddle back and forth in the water). A softer or lower profile tail might help.

Great looking bait by the way.

[iboothroyd94]

1 hour ago, danthefisherman said:

I think I know what problem you are trying to describe. What sort of tail material and hardness are you using? It could be that it is hindering the side to side tail movement that you are aiming for (think of trying to swing a paddle back and forth in the water). A softer or lower profile tail might help.

Great looking bait by the way.

Thanks man. Right now I’m using some cheap thin foam material - it’s not a very stiff material but it definitely could be not reacting to the water the way it should be. I’ve tried some larger and smaller versions of this material but didn’t notice too much of a difference. It strangely works great on my first two prototypes but not so much on some of the others. 
 

Currently waiting on some plastisol to play around with some more legitimate tails so I should find out if it’s the tail material soon! 

[iboothroyd94]

Thank you @BrierBob and @danthefisherman - took some of your advice and lowered tail profile and weight of the rear end and definitely saw improvements. Filmed a few swim videos of a couple prototypes below.
 

 First one (perch pattern) I have not fished yet but the action improved. Second two (all black & all white) I’ve fished heavily the past two months with a lot of success. 
 

To anyone out there - as far as the action, what should I look to change or improve? Thanks in advance. 

[Secondshiftlures]

Nice looking bait! Something that is easy to modify to see how it changes the action is the space in the joint. Based on your description of the action I would guess that the tail can move to an extreme angle. I cant tell how the head and tail are connected. If you are using screw eyes try screwing them in further so that the tail has less range of motion, if that makes sense. Or you can glue a piece of plastic on both sides that will restrict the movement. and file them down to the thickness for the desired range of motion. I am not sure if my explanation makes sense... For example, if the tail can hinge to 60 degrees each direction relative to the head, restrict the joint so that it can only go to 45 degrees. 

[Niki814]

Looks good love the perch paint

[BigBaitThirty]

What @Secondshiftlures touched base on was one of the things I was going to suggest taking a look at. 

There are as you mentioned several eligible elements that could very well be the culprit… However if you are assembling baits the same as I assume you would naturally to try to in an effort to replicate the first 2 you were successful on the water with….
Then off top although The clips are a good visual aid, without actually holding or testing the new pours vs the originals I would venture to say it’s more then likely weighting and initial ratio of mixture. 

@danthefisherman nearly always gets my co-sign as he is quite thoughtful and humble and just hard not to like, but in this instance although he is not wrong as vertical flat surfaces will in fact meet resistance and (great paddle example btw Dan) However I don’t think that’s the true culprit as I can only assume you opted to make your newest like your originals tail style and all and from the vids that seems to be confirmed. Which is to say the less “light and playful” tail section of the newer bait may more likely be attributed to weighting and perhaps even joint spacing as @Secondshiftlures mentioned.

If all things are created equal you should yield the same result, but as most bait makers will likely confess that’s not always the case. Fortunately most things are measurable givens we can likely backtrack on to mull over and figure out.

From here I recommend keeping notes. 
keep all things consistent from room temperature, to location of pours…

A stabilized environment like an inside office space or spare room can be ideal at eliminating fluctuating variables such as high and low temperatures & or humidity. Use pour Mats (I use thin transparent dollar store cutting boards that come in 3pks . You can easily wipe spilled res’ or scrap cured res’ off and reuse over & over…) and use a cheap rug below your workspace if inside. These aren’t just hard earned tips but important factors to recognize to optimize future success.

Room temp and humidity alone are no joke.

Feel free to reach out anytime I’m a perpetual student of our craft myself, but I’m happy to try and help. 
 

Cheers

 

[iboothroyd94]

@Secondshiftlures & @BigBaitThirty really appreciate all of the input. I’ve been focusing so much on the lip size/angle that I haven’t thought much about the range of motion on the joints. With each new pour I just adjust until it looks about the same as the originals, but will definitely do some tests to see how less motion effects this. 
 

I did notice some improvements by taking @danthefisherman ‘s advice and shrinking down the tail profile, but it may have had more to do with weight than with actual profile. I trimmed down a plastic Sherpa tail to the same profile as my originals and it almost completely stopped all tail movement, which I think is because it was drastically heavier than the material I started using. 
 

As far as the temp/humidity, that may also be a huge factor seeing as I’m up in the Massachusetts and poured my first two on my back porch in 80+ degree weather, and now pouring again indoors in winter. Luckily I now have a designated workshop area going forward. 
 

I also recently learned on some striper forums about how the positioning of the line tie above or below the center of gravity effects the tightness of the motion. I definitely have my work cut out for me to get everything dialed in. 
 

Thanks again

-Ian 

[Secondshiftlures]

On 12/7/2021 at 4:46 PM, iboothroyd94 said:

@Secondshiftlures & @BigBaitThirty really appreciate all of the input. I’ve been focusing so much on the lip size/angle that I haven’t thought much about the range of motion on the joints. With each new pour I just adjust until it looks about the same as the originals, but will definitely do some tests to see how less motion effects this. 
 

I did notice some improvements by taking @danthefisherman ‘s advice and shrinking down the tail profile, but it may have had more to do with weight than with actual profile. I trimmed down a plastic Sherpa tail to the same profile as my originals and it almost completely stopped all tail movement, which I think is because it was drastically heavier than the material I started using. 
 

As far as the temp/humidity, that may also be a huge factor seeing as I’m up in the Massachusetts and poured my first two on my back porch in 80+ degree weather, and now pouring again indoors in winter. Luckily I now have a designated workshop area going forward. 
 

I also recently learned on some striper forums about how the positioning of the line tie above or below the center of gravity effects the tightness of the motion. I definitely have my work cut out for me to get everything dialed in. 
 

Thanks again

-Ian 

I have had repeatability issues caused by variations in the density of my castings. I can get some of them real close to dialed in like I want but something isn't quiet right. I think your info about center of gravity and line tie position explains my problem. 

[iboothroyd94]

16 hours ago, Secondshiftlures said:

I have had repeatability issues caused by variations in the density of my castings. I can get some of them real close to dialed in like I want but something isn't quiet right. I think your info about center of gravity and line tie position explains my problem. 

Here's the link to one of the resources I was reading if you want to take a look - https://www.thefisherman.com/article/moving-water-button-yer-lips/

It's based on a completely different style of metal striper plug lips, but the general physics around water resistance should still apply to what we're doing. I think where the center of gravity/line tie is going to have a big impact on me is that I haven't been using weights - I pour pure resin in the bottom 1/3 of the mold as the ballast, and  a microballoon mixture in the top 2/3 for buoyancy. For me, I think with the "higher" center of gravity with the ballast weighting going up 1/3 of the lure, rather than smaller condensed weighting right at the bottom, I may need to move my line tie up a bit a counter that. To be determined.